What's It Really Like?

With an internship in tax at a Big 4 lined up for this summer, I often get asked by family members what I will be doing. Well...I'll be in the tax department, specifically working with financial institutions (banks). But what do I do every day? As much as I have learned throughout the recruiting process this semester, I don't really have the answer. What I do know is that it will be very different from college accounting classes. Training will be very important in achieving success in the internship. How much does the firm expect us to know on day one? Hopefully not too much. It recently dawned on me that although I can spit out random stats and values of each firm, the day to day activities are still a mystery. Will I be filling out tax returns? Probably, but hopefully with a little help.

I guess the answer to the original question is time will tell. Everyone's day to day activities will be different. The middle six weeks of the internship are a mystery at the moment, but nevertheless exciting.

-M

Awkward...

We've discussed a lot of networking-related tips and shared some of our limited experiences in the professional world.  And most of it has been with the assumption that the recruiter from Firm X is a normal, nice person.  However, there will certainly be experiences in the recruiting process that are less than comfortable.  There aren't too many openly 'mean' recruiters, but if you go to enough events, you will see which recruiters are a little awkward to interact with.  

So how do you deal with it?  What does it mean?  In general, I would say that having one uncomfortable experience with a recruiter should not turn you off from that firm.  In most large firms, there are almost bound to be some people that you just don't 'jive' with.  What would concern me about a firm is if multiple recruiters from a firm are socially awkward, or you simply do not get along with them.  In this case, there are plenty of other firms out there to develop a strong relationship with.  Don't worry about uncomfortable interactions with firms, just stay true to yourself and be pleasant with whoever you come into contact with.

-B

Master of Confusion

We all know we need 150 hours to get the CPA license. Unless you came into college with a ton of credits, or perhaps pursued a double major in finance, you will have an extra year of school to tackle. There are options...Master of Accounting, Master of Tax, or even an MBA. These degrees definitely make you more qualified in the job market. Communicate with your professors, other students, or recruiters about which you should apply for.

If you are 100% set on public accounting, it is my belief that the Master of Science in Taxation is superior. Even if you are doing audit, professors have told me this is the way to go. You cannot work in tax without it, and the firms spike up your salary if you earn the degree. An MST gives you the most career options in accounting. There is nothing wrong with a plain Master in Accounting, but it may give you less options later on. For example, if you would like to switch to tax in a few years, this will prove much more difficult.

As for the MBA, there is a lot to consider. First, this degree generally takes two years instead of one like the MAcc and MST (and extra tuition). This may be the way to go if you do not plan on staying in public accounting forever. While you won't develop whole lot more of accounting knowledge, you will have a broader foundation in business to draw from in your career. MBA classes can teach valuable information on people/communication skills in the workplace.

Think about it, ask around, and happy choosing.

-M

Why You?

M has discussed interviews on here before, but I've been hearing more and more about a specific question that has been tripping up interview candidates.  In general, behavioral interviews are pleasant and the interviewer will stick to asking you questions about your resume and general questions about you and the firm.

However, I will never forget when I was interviewing in the office of a Big 4 firm with 60 other well qualified candidates for under 20 spots.  I interviewed with 2 very nice Managers before being sent into a Partners office.  We exchanged pleasantries and discussed the highlights of my resume briefly before he hit me with it:  "There are a lot of qualified candidates here today, why should we choose you?"

Wow.  What was I supposed to say?  There are so many angles here that you could take.  "I'm a hard worker", "I'm good at building relationships", "I have the necessary skills to do the job.... a lot can be said. So what did I say?  All 3.   And in hearing from current recruiters and professionals, this was a good choice.  Unless you really feel that there is something so special about yourself that will separate you from others, I suggest crafting a well thought out, articulate response that portrays you as a well rounded candidate.  This is the best way to rise to the top of a competitive field of candidates, without a disingenuous or canned response.

-B

The Dreaded Exam

Up until now, much of what we have discussed involves the recruiting process for accounting students. In this post, I would like to further discuss our end goal: passing the CPA exam. The exam is taken in four parts: Auditing & Attestation, Business Environment & Concepts, Financial Accounting & Reporting, and Regulation. Of course, it would be best to complete all four parts before starting to work full time. This is difficult, but the firms offer great incentives. Most of the Big 4 give a $5,000 bonus if the exam is complete within the first year of work and $3,000 within two years.

The short time window between finishing school and beginning full time may not leave much of an opportunity to complete the exam. If this is the case, I recommend having two parts done before work starts. With hard work, this can be done over your last free summer. There will be no time at all to study during busy season, so plan ahead!

Last thoughts: use the Becker CPA review. They have the highest pass rate between all the review courses.

-M

Think Small?

To this point, much of what I have shared with you has been about the “Big 4” Public Accounting firms.  With the sheer size and importance of these firms, I think that any discussion of careers in Accounting simply needs to start with these 4 firms.  Admittedly, on a personal level, I also happen to know a little bit more about the Big 4 than other firms.  However, I would be remiss in leaving out the mid-level firms that populate the landscape of Public Accounting. 

Firms such as McGladrey, Crowe, Grant Thornton, and BDO all command respect from those in the Accounting profession.  These are firms that offer most of the same services that the Big 4 do, but on a smaller scale.  They typically have offices in most large cities, and attempt to hire from the same schools the Big 4 targets.  So should you, as an undergraduate accounting major, consider working for these mid-level firms?  Absolutely.   Crowe can sell you on the idea that they have a more personal relationship with their coworkers because of their smaller offices.  And Grant Thornton might show you how they carry a number of large clients, making them a serious competitor in the market to the Big 4.  At the end of the day, comfort is crucial in determining a place to start a career.   The ‘second tier’ of public accounting firms should be on your list of potential employers, if for no other reason than doing your due diligence. 

-B

Location, Location, Location

Often times, recruiters at career fairs will ask you which office you are interested in working at. To be perfectly honest, it is easiest if you are choosing the office closest to your university. This is where they are mainly recruiting for. However, you will find that recruiters understand that many students leave home for college with the intention of moving back after earning a degree. Definitely apply back home, but apply for a couple near your college to be safe. With that said, don't apply for a random city just because you think it would be cool to live there. Recruiters can tell if you have no good reason to work in a particular city and it definitely ruins your chances of getting the offer.

It can be difficult to get into other offices, so consider yourself fortunate when you receive the office visit invitation. I myself have an office visit with a Big 4 in my hometown next week and was pretty surprised/excited when I got the invitation. Having taken one before, I can tell you that these trips are exhausting. You miss a few classes and travel upwards of thousands of miles in two days. HOPEFULLY, it is all worth it when the phonecall offer comes in shortly after the interviews are over.
-M

Getting the "in"

With the great reputation that the major Accounting Firms have, combined with a brutal jobs market, an Internship offer to a reputable firm is the modern day Job Offer. So, what then is the modern day Internship? The answer: Leadership Programs.

Essentially a courtship period for both you and the firm, a Leadership Program is usually a 3 day event in the summer that takes place at the office of the firm and usually involves Sophomores and Juniors. As a "recruit", you get invaluable insight into what happens at that particular firm, and perhaps most importantly you get to interact with the professionals in that office. You should expect: free (really good) food, slightly inflated promises about the environment at that firm, and lots of business cards. But all joking aside, the Leadership Program gets you an "in" that firm, and most firms will schedule them in a way that allow you to attend multiple programs.

Interested? You should be! The best part about the Leadership Program is that it is an easier path to the Internship offer (most of those who attend a LP get the Internship offer soon after). The stress of interviewing on campus as a Junior/Senior for the internship itself can be wiped away by getting in to these events. You still have to interview for them, but the process is less stressful, and once you secure the LP offer, interviews will likely not be necessary for the remainder of the recruiting process with that firm. If you are a Freshman/Sophomore, save some of your sanity by looking into the Leadership Program process.

Company Culture

When you ask almost any accountant what they like most about their firm, the answer will be "the people."
At first, I thought this was just a standard answer. How different can the people really be from firm to firm?
There is actually a good amount of truth to this though. As I started talking to recruiters, there were some that I clicked with. We had things in common and carried on a conversation. Then there were others who I could not imagine having to work with- no personality, difficult to talk to.

After the prereqs (GPA, extracurriculars, etc.), the firm is mostly trying to find out if you "fit" with them. Would they like to work with you? Are you a potential future leader? Once you make it to the office visit, the company will try to sell itself to you. Why are they the best to work for?

Keep all this in mind during the recruiting process. Finding the best fit is more important than working for the biggest and best firm. You don't want to end up dreading going to work in the morning.

-M

College to Coffee Room?

So what exactly does one do during an Accounting internship?  Being that I will be doing mine in the upcoming summer, I would like to know as well.  But thankfully, in talking with those who have recently done internships at Big 4 firms and professionals within those firms, I have gained a modest understanding of what the internship is all about. 

The one thing that I was worried about was that I would be relegated to King of the Coffee Room, fetching various innocuous items for people too busy to share any sort of insight into what they are doing.  This could not be farther from the truth.  Almost all work at large accounting firms is done in teams.  A Partner will be the head of the engagement, with Managers and Associates in varying numbers supporting each other and essentially sharing the work.  An intern will get put on one of these client engagements, and will simply assume the role with the lowest responsibility.  This is nothing to sneeze at, as you will be an important member of a small team working with a major client. 

-B

So, do you have any questions?

It's interviewing season. We are preparing how to answer questions- how we got into accounting, why we want to work for their company, what our strengths/weaknesses are. At some point, the interviewer will turn the tables and it will be our turn to ask questions. This portion of the interview is just as important as the rest of it. The professional on the other side of the table will take note of what kind of questions you are asking. You should ask a little about the interviewer's background, but mainly focus on asking questions that would help you decide if YOU want to work there. Be creative and try not to ask the same questions everyone else is asking. Here are some sample questions:

How would you describe the ideal candidate?
Is there a training program for new hires?
Do interns/new hires get mentors?
What keeps you at ____(insert company name here)____?
How do you find the work/life balance?

Just a few ideas for starters.

-M

Fencing Club or Honor Society?

I’m going to share with you today a few tips about how to build your resume through club involvement.  As the title indicates, often tough choices have to be made about how to allocate your precious time at college.  Truthfully, it happened to me as well.  You want to pursue what you are passionate about in your leisure time, but you still want to make sure you are in the right groups and clubs to put you in a position to get that internship or job. 

Pick one.  No, I am not saying to pick between the strictly Business and purely Fun clubs.  My suggestion is simply to pick one “fun” group or club that you love being a part of, and stick with it.  Rather, don’t just stick with it, run it.  Being an “active member” (code word for you haven’t gotten kicked out yet) in 6 different obscure clubs is not nearly as effective on a resume (and in an interview) as being in 1 that you hold a position in. 

In future interviews, you will thank yourself for this choice.  While only you can tell what you are comfortable with, I would say that ‘owning’ that one obscure club position, while also being a truly active member in 2-3 business related organizations, is a formula for success.  You will be able to answer behavioral questions in an interview based on your leadership experience.  And I know firsthand that interviewers will remember you as “the Sailing Guy”, etc.  They will simply be confused if you try to be the Sailing Guy, the Fencing Guy, the Quidditch Guy, the Badminton Guy, AND the Medieval Literature Guy.

-B

Dear.....?

Email ettiquette with regards to accounting recruiters can sometimes be unclear. In my experiences thus far, the most difficult part of an email is the first line. Dear ___. Often times the people we encounter at career fairs are not much older than us. They introduce themselves by their first name. Older recruiters tend to introduce themselves by their full name. So when we get home and sit down to write follow-up emails, what do we do?

If this is the first time you after emailing someone, I feel the proper thing to do is use Mr. ___ or Ms. ____, no matter what age they are. After more contact with the person, it becomes more appropriate to use a first name. Every situation will be different, use your judgment. It is never a bad thing to be too formal, but it is a bad thing to be too informal.

Just another little decision to make on your way to becoming a CPA.

-M

The Fourth and a Half… err… Fifth Year

For those of you who do not know, the CPA examination is generally required for completion in your first 5 years at a major accounting firm.  In addition to passing the exam itself, you must also have 150 credit hours to be certified as a CPA.  Simple math (we know you’re good at it) would leave the average student doing 5 years at 30 credits a year (15 per semester).  This is fine.  No, really, it is.  This lets you do your Internship in the summer after your Senior year, take the CPA immediately after your Graduate school year, then start full time in the fall.  Great. 

Where it gets tricky is when you introduce the concept of an “accelerated” program.  Additional credits are thrown in here and there to allow you to reach the 150 credits in 4.5 years.  Essentially, you network yourself into a frenzy (see M’s post below) to the point where the big firms are throwing internship offers your way as a (very tired) Junior.  Then you Intern after your Junior year (when you really have no clue what you are doing) and then take the CPA in the summer after your Senior year (without the benefit of your last 15-18 credits), and hope you don’t mess up.  Oh, and all along the way you are taking summer classes and 18 credit semesters to make up the additional classes.

If you could not tell, I am not a big proponent of these accelerated programs.  The process of getting an internship is long enough without having to completely lose your mind as a Sophomore.  Also, the internship is a full 18 months before your projected start date.  Will they even remember you?  Will YOU even remember what you did there?  Add that to the fact that starting in January puts you right in the middle of busy season.  So you were under-prepared as an intern, and now you are stepping into the middle of busy season on an 18-month layover. 

Credit should be given to those who can escape that gauntlet unscathed and save a semester’s tuition.  In the long run, they have the potential to have a leg up on the rest of us.  I, however, prefer to avoid the gauntlet altogether. 

-B 

Audit or Tax? Audit or Tax?

The second you declare yourself an accounting major, you will have a big decision looming over your head. Your peers will ask you, your professors will ask you, and most importantly recruiters will ask you: Are you interested in audit or tax? Since tax classes can be a drag, the overwhelming majority of students will choose audit. What do we know about audit? Not much. What do we really know about tax? Not a whole lot either. The reality is that being an auditor or a tax accountant is very different from how it appears in classes.

This being said, the challenge lies in formulating an intelligent response to the recruiter's question. Learn as much as you can about your selected field before your interview/career fair/information session. Worst comes to worst, you can give the generic answer:

"So, John, why audit? What do you know about audit?"
"Well, I really enjoyed my audit class. I like the idea of traveling to clients and not spending every day in the office. Audit involves more teamwork, a skill which I have developed."

They know that, as a student, you don't have much experience in the field. As long as you show you know what audit or tax is, they will move on. Do your research and make your choice- remember, it doesn't bind you for life. There will always be an opportunity to make a switch.

Best,
-M

Why?

Simple question, really, and one aimed specifically for those just embarking on their journey as an Accounting Major.  Why is it that you want to be an Accountant?  To be honest, I didn’t have a clue when I was forced to pick a major as a Sophomore.  I picked Accounting because it has a “general business” feel, it involves some numbers, and it is one of the few stable sectors in terms of landing a job out of college.  That’s it. 

The good news (for both you AND me) is that the world of Public Accounting is nothing like the stereotypes of pocket-protectors and calculators.  Instead, Public Accounting offers a dynamic, exciting, people-based career choice.  Most of the work done by Audit and Tax Accountants is actually done in groups, with a strong support system and frequent communication.   Individual, isolated work is the exception, not the norm.  What some don’t realize is that most accounting majors are looking toward these Public Accounting jobs, and not an Accounting job within a large company.  If you want to be Ned from Accounts Payable with the pocket protector and never leave your cubicle, those traditional Accounting jobs within Fortune 500 companies are always available!

Fortunately, however, Public Accounting is a growing, well-paying, and intellectually satisfying career choice.  One thing you will find is that, much like me, many Accounting Majors stumbled upon their choice.  If you were one of the few to know about everything a career in Public Accounting offered before you declared your major, then hats off to you.  For those of you who did not, personally I think you made a great choice, aside from all of the networking nonsense you are sure to endure until you lock up that job.   For more information on the career opportunities the Big 4 offer, take a look at the following sites: 

www.ey.com/US/en/Careers/Students

www.pwc.tv

www.kpmgcampus.com/index.shtml

http://careers.deloitte.com/united-states/students/studentgrad.aspx

-B

Do's and Don'ts of Networking

With our Accounting Career Fair coming up, I figured this would be a good time to discuss some networking tips. For those of you who are sophomores, it is not too early to start attending these events! Introduce yourself and bring copies of your resume- you would be surprised how many recruiters will remember you later down the road. But for juniors and seniors, it's go time!

DO:
-Dress to impress! Girls- Spend an extra 15 minutes on your hair. Keep your heel height to an inch or two. Wear stockings if you are wearing a suit with a skirt. Boys- Shine those shoes and make that tie knot perfect.
-Make your resume stand out. If possible, go out and buy a pack of resume paper. It shows extra effort which the firms love!
-Research all the firms you plan on visiting before the fair. Have a set plan on what you want to talk about or ask the recruiters.
-Have a strong hand shake and be confident.
-Get a business card and send a follow-up email the next day. Include a specific detail from your conversation to make it easier for him/her to remember you. This shows interest and sets you apart from most of the other applicants who do not take this step.

DON'T:
-Girls- Stay away from perfume; don't wear too much makeup. Boys- if you have an ear piercing, take it out.
-Ask about salary
-Ask questions you should know the answer to (i.e. What does your firm do?)
-Say "um," "uh," or "like." When you feel like you have to say "um" simply PAUSE to collect your thoughts.

Overall, networking can be scary and awkward. I hope that these pointers make you feel more at ease at your next professional event.

Best,
M

B here

As M mentioned, we are here to share our experiences through the first 3 years of Business School.  Our hope is that you will find at least some of what you read to be good advice, entertaining, and a nice break from your daily grind. 

M and I are Seniors at a Top 50 university, which is important not because we want to brag (ok, a little), but so that our readers know we are not preaching to you based on our limited experiences at Northwest South Dakota State (does that school even exist?  Probably not), but at a credible institution where recruiting procedures are most likely similar to what our college-aged readers will experience.  I have currently locked up my internship (#Winning) for next summer at a Big 4 accounting firm.  Again, more interesting stories upcoming on that.  One thing that I will write about is the absurdity of how early the recruiting process starts for Accounting majors.  Realizing that I had to be taking serious steps in Fall 2009 towards securing a job that I will likely begin in Fall 2013 has made me shake my head on multiple occasions. 

Our hope is that that our stories make you shake your head and laugh as well.  As long as one Undergrad gets a better feel for what they’re up against, our job will be done. 

-B

So You Want to be a CPA...

Hello Readers,

Let me begin by saying that this blog will describe the process accounting majors go through during college. B and I will talk about our personal experiences, as well as communication trends in the industry.

A little about me...I am currently a senior applying for summer internships and graduate school. You can imagine how much fun that is. Throughout this blog, I will tell you how I got to this point, hopefully teaching you what and what not to do. We will tell you things that professors and recruiters won't, from how to make your career fair encounter less awkward, to choosing between tax and audit. Our goal is to make accounting slightly less painful for you...and to complain a little. Accounting is not for everyone, but it will all be worth it in the end if you stick with it.

Stay tuned,
-M